On 26 April I e-mailed Mark Seed the Director responsible for the port of Ramsgate. I reproduce the exchange below. I believe that Mr Seed was probably in position to let me have the information I requested, but he chose not to. This could be a possible breach of the Council's Officer Code of Conduct. I have raised this matter with the District Auditor and will also be taking through due Council procedure. Please read this exchange below and decide for your self
Councillor Ian Driver Green Party
Email exchange between Mark Seed and Councillor Ian Driver about the Transeuropa debt
Ian
My concern about providing rough guess figures still applies, and once I have better figures I will clearly discuss these first with my Portfolio Holder before anything is disseminated wider.
Mark
From: Ian Driver [mailto:ianddriver@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2013 17:34
To: Mark Seed
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Hello Mark
In response to your e-mail. I assume that because the Council is initiating recovery action the losses to the Council must be significant and that the Council must already have a good idea what these losses are.
I assume that monies owed to the Council relate mainly to rental payments and berthing fees in which case it should very straightforward to advise me, in my capacity of Chairman of OSP, of these amounts.
If these figures are being prepared for court action then I would imagine that they are being prepared quickly and that there is therefore no need to wait for the preparations of the final accounts.
Finally could you advise me if you, or other officers, have made members of the Cabinet aware of what the losses are likely to be and if so please advise me in my capacity as Chairman of OSP od the information you have provided to the Cabinet.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Cllr Ian Driver
Chairman OSP
From: Mark Seed <Mark.Seed@THANET.GOV.UKMark.Seed@THANET.GOV.UK>>
To: Cllr-Ian Driver <ianddriver@yahoo.co.ukianddriver@yahoo.co.uk>>
Sent: Monday, 29 April 2013, 12:45
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Ian
I think there are some dangers in this context of guessing especially with the Belgian court action.
I will need to check with Finance on timescales under the final accounts process.
Mark
From: Ian Driver [mailto:ianddriver@yahoo.co.ukianddriver@yahoo.co.uk>]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 09:43 AM GMT Standard Time
To: Mark Seed
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Hello Mark
Thank you for you e-mail.
Is it possible to let me have an approximate figure please. If not could tell me when the figures will be available.
regards
Cllr Ian Driver
Chairman OSP
From: Mark Seed <Mark.Seed@THANET.GOV.UKMark.Seed@THANET.GOV.UK>>
To: Cllr-Ian Driver <ianddriver@yahoo.co.ukianddriver@yahoo.co.uk>>
Sent: Monday, 29 April 2013, 9:56
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Ian
As the sum is directly relevant to the final accounts the figure is currently being calculated as part of this process. The figure is not currently available to be provided as this process is still underway.
Harvey has already engaged legal support to seek recovery of any sums involved, including seeking contact with the Curators appointed by the Belgian courts as well as possible routes in relation to assets in this country.
Mark
From: Ian Driver [mailto:ianddriver@yahoo.co.ukianddriver@yahoo.co.uk>ianddriver@yahoo.co.ukianddriver@yahoo.co.uk>>]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 03:16 PM GMT Standard Time
To: Mark Seed
Subject: transeuropa
Hi Mark
I understand that Transeuropa ferries and/or its associated owe Thanet Council considerable amounts of money. Could you please let me have a breakdown of the monies owed to TDC by TransEuropa and/ or its associates and could you also tell me what action the Council is contemplating to recover any monies owed.
Look forward to hearing from you
Cllr Ian Driver
Chairman OSP
My concern about providing rough guess figures still applies, and once I have better figures I will clearly discuss these first with my Portfolio Holder before anything is disseminated wider.
Mark
From: Ian Driver [mailto:ianddriver@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2013 17:34
To: Mark Seed
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Hello Mark
In response to your e-mail. I assume that because the Council is initiating recovery action the losses to the Council must be significant and that the Council must already have a good idea what these losses are.
I assume that monies owed to the Council relate mainly to rental payments and berthing fees in which case it should very straightforward to advise me, in my capacity of Chairman of OSP, of these amounts.
If these figures are being prepared for court action then I would imagine that they are being prepared quickly and that there is therefore no need to wait for the preparations of the final accounts.
Finally could you advise me if you, or other officers, have made members of the Cabinet aware of what the losses are likely to be and if so please advise me in my capacity as Chairman of OSP od the information you have provided to the Cabinet.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Cllr Ian Driver
Chairman OSP
From: Mark Seed <Mark.Seed@THANET.GOV.UK
To: Cllr-Ian Driver <ianddriver@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Monday, 29 April 2013, 12:45
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Ian
I think there are some dangers in this context of guessing especially with the Belgian court action.
I will need to check with Finance on timescales under the final accounts process.
Mark
From: Ian Driver [mailto:ianddriver@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 09:43 AM GMT Standard Time
To: Mark Seed
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Hello Mark
Thank you for you e-mail.
Is it possible to let me have an approximate figure please. If not could tell me when the figures will be available.
regards
Cllr Ian Driver
Chairman OSP
From: Mark Seed <Mark.Seed@THANET.GOV.UK
To: Cllr-Ian Driver <ianddriver@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Monday, 29 April 2013, 9:56
Subject: Re: transeuropa
Ian
As the sum is directly relevant to the final accounts the figure is currently being calculated as part of this process. The figure is not currently available to be provided as this process is still underway.
Harvey has already engaged legal support to seek recovery of any sums involved, including seeking contact with the Curators appointed by the Belgian courts as well as possible routes in relation to assets in this country.
Mark
From: Ian Driver [mailto:ianddriver@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 03:16 PM GMT Standard Time
To: Mark Seed
Subject: transeuropa
Hi Mark
I understand that Transeuropa ferries and/or its associated owe Thanet Council considerable amounts of money. Could you please let me have a breakdown of the monies owed to TDC by TransEuropa and/ or its associates and could you also tell me what action the Council is contemplating to recover any monies owed.
Look forward to hearing from you
Cllr Ian Driver
Chairman OSP
So for almost a month Seed has refused to provide the costs to a councillor? And while court action is being undertaken?
ReplyDeleteAnd there's Harvey and his inhouse team that then hire outside lawyers?
Sounds like easy cost savings.
IAN DRIVER has forgotten that he is no longer the Chairman of Overview and Scrutiny. The new Chairman is a Tory and they put business before people every time
ReplyDeleteLook at the dates on the emails moron. he was still Chairman when they were written
DeleteYou miss my point brain cell
DeleteI voted Labour and got a Green councillor.
ReplyDeleteYou voted labour, and got a "independant"/TIG/Green councillor, I wonder how you feel about your councillor keeping that information from you, and failing to seek your renewed mandate when it became appraant that you voted for something other than what you have received....
DeleteI voted Labour and got a Green councillor, that is true Mr Hamilton. But at least I do not have a hateful nasty excuse for a human being, such as yourself as my representative. (Although you are a Tory Councillor with a false name in another part of Thanet)
DeleteJohn Hamilton = Coward and bully!
DeleteSurely the coward is the one who hides behind his anonymous cloak.
DeleteCllr Epps is back: what did you know of the Ramsgate Port/Ferry fiasco from the Anon Ferry Committee? How much is the debt?
DeleteAnon, your evident lack of knowledge of the responsibilities of councils at the various levels is sadly lacking. I am a Broadstairs Town Councillor and whilst the Ramsgate Port activities fall within the jurisdiction of TDC, and are obviously of interest to RTC, it has nothing to do with Broadstairs.
DeleteIf, on the other hand, someone living in my ward were to ask me these questions I would endeavour to find out for them. If that fits you, look me up on the BTC website and send me a letter or email and I will respond. If that does not fit you then I suggest you contact your own ward councillor.
Andfor the record, I am not John Hamilton though I do believe that Lily Savage is a man for whatever relevance either answer may have to anything.
Bless you anon 14:20 and 14:25, anonomous attempted bullies hiding behind anonomous posts, when you post under your own names I MAY take you seriously, till then , you really are of no interest to me whatsoever.
DeleteConservative councillour? No, as you can easily check, there is no councillour Hamilton.
I pity you Mr Epps, I fear if the anon alliance are part of your electorate, you have a long LONG few years in front of you catering for the lowest common denominator.
Thanks, John, actually most of the calls and contacts are from people with genuine concerns, but, occassionally, one gets "the what are you going to do about aggressive seagulls" caller, usually over dinner or in the middle of a decent TV programme.
DeleteI'm sure William, I would bet most are like my ex wife, according to her, WW1 was all my fault, and she knew exactly what should have been down to stop it, and has no idea why i didn;t do it!
DeleteCllr Epps.on the port you seem to have forgotten that it's funded by BTC/TDC tax. And indeed some of your constituents may work there. And the collapse will also affect the Broadstairs economy.
DeleteAs many of your colleagues also sit on TDC why not ask of the costs, secret committee etc?
You sound toothless.
How can you be in control of the situation if you do not know how much is owed? Presumably to prove the figures to the Court you need to show that you've actually asked the company for the money so wouldn't there be some sort of bill?
ReplyDeleteThe auditor should look at the system for bills if this information isn't at anyone's fingertips bearing in mind we are talking about millions of pounds. Sounds like it might be a bit of a shambles so let's have it checked out.
I would of thought that Ian could have been given a heads up that the figure was likely to be over £1 million even if a full figure was not available, as it seems to have been in excess of this a long time ago. The fact that it's more than a £1 million would be more than enough to set most peoples alarm bells ringing.
Companies go bust......... end of, its no sexier than that, its a free market!
ReplyDeleteIan is just a normal councillor now
ReplyDeleteOh Lord. Cllr Driver's attention seeking behaviour once again attached to an issue which promises public approbation for his pseudo truthseeker style.
ReplyDelete(Save John Hamilton the effort of contributing to the thread)
Thank you, :)
DeleteJohn Hamilton = Coward and bully!
DeleteThank you Anon 14.22, that is clearly the best you have. I look forward to your next post after your next lesson.
DeleteDriver could not deal with a financial situation...Thats why he' no longer at CAB
ReplyDeleteHow childish!
DeleteJohn Hamilton = Coward and bully!
DeleteYou seem to be posting the same thing again Anon 14:26, do you have a stutter?
DeleteThe press release says that savings in the cremator project of £196k will be utilised to partly cover the debt. Anyone know for certain whether cremation fees went up to pay for the project as I thought there was something about this in the press a few years back? If so can this money be used for the debt or do they have to reduce cremation fees with this money and why was the amount for the project so far out from the final cost?
ReplyDeleteThe crem was revamped recently, and they spent £196K less on it than they expected. Hence the £196K saved can go towards the ferry hole. There's more about the crem revamp on my blog.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this information Richard. I'm still not sure if the cremation fees paid for the work but it has thrown up another puzzle (for me at least).
DeleteThe timeline seems to be and anyone please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm struggling to understand this as things are a bit confusing to me:
26? April 2013 reports appear on the internet saying TransEuropa Ferries has gone into administration.
29/30? April 2013 Council Press Release saying the crematorium project was delivered under budget by £150,000, which will be re-invested to increase customer parking and other improvements to the crematorium facilities.
20? May 2013 Council Press Release saying savings in the cremator project of £196k will be utilised for the debt.
Are they the same savings and if so is the saving £150,000 or £196,000? If not is there a saving of both figures together i.e. £346,000 and what is this made up of?
If they are are the same money (although for some reason the figures are different) are the badly needed increased customer parking and other improvements to the crematorium facilities still going ahead and how are they going to be paid for? Has/shouldn’t the full impact of using this money be pointed out to councillors? Do councillors know the knock on effect of voting this through? They probably have no option but to vote it through but what will be the consequences. Let's face up to it now.
help!! - Anyone else any clearer on this?
You should try working out the 0% salaries mathematics!
DeleteCouncillors told us they had no influence over animal exports. Complete tosh given they own the Port.
ReplyDeleteBut even more so as it now turns out they were actually secretly funding the ferry operator who were doing the exporting!
John Hamilton = Coward and bully!
ReplyDeleteAre William Epps and John Hamilton one and the same? I think we should be told.
ReplyDeleteAs for Transeuropa; public inquiry anybody?
Oh dear, the anon's are doing poorly today.
ReplyDelete19:39 It appears that the high court disagree with you, I wonder whose opinion I should place the most confidence in...
Oh and as if to prove just how wrong you are, you are aware that TEF are not the company carrying out the live exports right?
14:25 *sigh* you need to try to find something intelligent to say ;)
16:46 nope, my name is at the begining of the post as always, where is your name?
It seem that many have no idea of what/if TDC has lost anything in the demise of TEF.
ReplyDeleteNow lets examine the bare facts without the spin of those with an axe to grind, and the ignorance of those with not a clue how real business works.
It appears there are 2 scenarios when a company is failing, at the is the position that TDC found itself in. So, simply put, the 2 scenarios are below;
1. TEF indicates it is in trouble some 2 years ago, TDC it appears tries to help it by waving fees for a time that extends to 2 years plus, ending in TEF going bust, and the council losing the £3.3million it had waived, collection of ill informed amatuer protesters shout about TDC incompetance, Driver jumps on bandwagon.
or
2. TEF indicates it is in trouble some 2 years ago, TDC immediately pulls the plug, resulting in the loss of the service 2 years ago, fee no longer due to TDC as TEF no longer exist, adding upto a loss to TDC of £3.3million in fees from TEF as they have gone bust 2 years earlier, collection of ill informed amatuer protesters shout about TDC incompetance, Driver jumps on bandwagon.
It seems that there is once again alarmist bullshit being peddled by the usual suspects about the demise of TEF